Cryptocurrency and Capital Gains Tax

The CC Forums

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Do any of the common accounting platforms work with crypto payments? Quick Books, online or others?

That’s a good question but I don’t know the answer. We are using an inexpensive basic package at this point. It does not offer crypto options but you can use different fiat currencies. Maybe someday soon.

Not all online payment systems can integrate crypto payments either. Too volatile probably at this point.
 

CryptoTC

Crypto Fat Cat
Not all online payment systems can integrate crypto payments either. Too volatile probably at this point.

That’s a good point for any business offering to accept crypto for payment. Revenue and cash flow could be hugely impacted if prices drop.

I still remember all sorts of online discussions last fall about everyone should accept bitcoin payments because it’s certain to be worth more in the future. Wonder how that worked out for them? A lot of younger investors in the crypto space thought bitcoin would be accepted everywhere and not taxed. Prices would be to “the moon.” My least favorite phrase in crypto, btw. Very amateurish.

Reality has set in for 2018.
 

The CC Forums

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Our latest and last article on US taxes and crypto was posted earlier today. It covers valuing crypto to crypto trades with examples on how to report trades.

Crypto to crypto gains tax - The Cryptocurrency Forums

There are a few sample trades in that post. If anyone is interested, we can post a few more examples here. You can see from the article how complex crypto trades can become after you reach more than a handful of transactions.

Taxpayers with dozens or even hundreds of transactions to report will be forced to use online or a paid tax preparer in my opinion.
 

Old Man Crypto

Expert chainblocker
Nothing to add here but I agree 2017 taxes are scaring investors who thought they didn’t have to pay. The 2018 plan might affect crypto for longer than just April this year.

And taxes are horrible to do with any crypto-crypto trades. Even just buying bitcoin to buy a few altcoins results in several listable trades. I can’t imagine how day traders are handling this.
 

The CC Forums

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Nothing to add here but I agree 2017 taxes are scaring investors who thought they didn’t have to pay. The 2018 plan might affect crypto for longer than just April this year.

And taxes are horrible to do with any crypto-crypto trades. Even just buying bitcoin to buy a few altcoins results in several listable trades. I can’t imagine how day traders are handling this.

Don’t day trade. Or don’t day trade until exchanges get reporting systems up to baseline level that allows easy downloading of transactions into tax software.

I saw one Reddit post from a crypto investor who said he had 50 pages of reportable transactions when it was all done, and he claimed to not be a day trader. Overwhelming if you have to do anything manually. So far I’ve been able to export in CSV but not able to import into TurboTax.

It’s a huge PITA no doubt. Imagine buying items with currencies that are treated as investment assets or properties. No one will want to spend bitcoin with these current laws.
 

The CC Forums

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For those of you needing extra time for your 2017 taxes, be sure to complete and file for an extension of time to send in your returns. The IRS will allow up to 6 months for completion of your final 1040 return. Note that you still must pay any tax owed or expected to be owed before April 17th to avoid penalties and interest. Try to complete the rest of your 2017 returns and then preview your crypto reports to get an estimate of taxes applicable. Short-term will be taxed at same rate as your income; refer to the draft of your return to estimate your effective tax rate. Long-term rates will be 0 or 15% for most taxpayers. Those of you in the 20% bracket likely pay for tax return preparation due to other complexities.

Once you have an estimate of taxes due on crypto gains, add that to any tax already owed or subtract it from estimated refund to get an idea of how much to send in with your form 4868. Taxpayers who have already paid at least 90% of total tax liability may not have to pay penalties or interest on tax owed with an extension. See more at

2017 IRS Form 4868 Extension of Time to File Return - The Cryptocurrency Forums
f4868.pdf
 

The CC Forums

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Remember tomorrow April 17th is tax day. If you aren’t ready, file an extension and try to guess what you’ll owe. You need to make a payment with the extension to avoid penalties and interest. You’ll get a refund if you overpay once you file the delayed return.

Coindesk has more tips.

What If You Can't Pay Your Crypto Taxes on April 17? - CoinDesk

“Generally speaking, if you made estimated tax payments for 2017 equal to or greater than your 2016 tax, then you're in the safe harbor for that big tax payment on your once-in-a-lifetime gains until the April deadline.

For example, if your 2016 tax was $30,000 and you estimate 2017 taxes at $150,000, you should have paid 2017 estimated taxes of at least $30,000, which leaves you needing to pay $120,000 on the April due date.

But what if you can't pay or don't want to pay the tax at the moment penalties and interest start accruing?”
 

The CC Forums

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Alrighty then. Time for me to come clean. After all the tax talk here and all the tax articles on this site and other sites, I still couldn’t get my taxes done on time.

Importing trades doesn’t work because several exchanges were used. Even though I don’t say trade, I did buy a few altcoins with bitcoin, and I took some gains out in the late fall. Not much though. Only a handful of sales, and yet it’s still a complete PITA to do manually.

Filed my extension last night and made an extra payment to cover what I think will be my liability when I’m done.

The US needs serious crypto tax reform. Using ETH to create an app or to execute a contract possibly with an escrow component shouldn’t result in a taxable trade. Buying a utility token such as UKG with ETH should not be a taxable trade. Using that UKG on their platform for in game purchases or skins should not be a taxable trade.

I could go on, but at this point it’s worthless to complain. It is what it is.

Join the fight at Coin Center | Coin Center
 

The CC Forums

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It seems people are ignoring tax rules again this year. Another coindesk link coming. Sorry. :cool:

Credit Karma: Almost No One Is Reporting Crypto Tax Gains - CoinDesk

I saw that on Reddit a few days ago. It may be a flawed stat though, as someone pointed out that Credit Karma tax service is apparently new and very basic. Crypto investors may be using software and/or accountants for their taxes.

Some may have waited until last minute to file. Others may have requested an extension (ahem...cough) :oops:
 

The CC Forums

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CoinTelegraph published an op ed piece on like-kind exchanges yesterday. It’s going to be interesting to see if anyone publicly declares that they are using the strategy for 2017 or earlier.

https://cointelegraph.com/news/biggest-crypto-tax-debate-is-not-what-you-think-expert-take

z7cVEq1.jpg


You might think the biggest tax debate about Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies is about whether you should or shouldn’t report it. Or perhaps about whether the US Internal Revenue Service (IRS) will catch people who don’t report. Perhaps, but there’s not too much debate about those topics these days. Everyone seems to know that you should report, and that the IRS is after taxing cryptocurrencies in a very big way.

The IRS is tracking with software, and the IRS summons of Coinbase is already bearing fruit with files for the IRS to review. In fact, the biggest cryptocurrency tax debate still seems to be about 1031, the tax code provision providing for like-kind exchanges.

Under US tax law, 1031 exchanges can only be of real estate for real estate, starting in 2018. The Trump tax law passed right around Dec. 2017 made it clear that that swaps of one cryptocurrencies for another are not tax free in 2018. But it is surprising how much debate there is about whether this argument can work for 2017 and prior tax years.

If you are about to file your 2017 tax return, should you claim tax-free treatment for past cryptocurrency transactions? If you are cleaning up your past tax reporting before the IRS finds you, you might have the same issue for 2016 too. So, is claiming 1031 treatment for cryptocurrency trades for the past smart or stupid? It turns out to be a nuanced subject, which is one reason it is debated.

Until the Trump tax bill killed it, depending on how aggressive you were, and how you could orchestrate it, you could try swapping one digital currency for another. The IRS has been asked about this repeatedly but remained mum. Broadly stated, a 1031 or like-kind exchange is a swap of one business or investment asset for another.

Under the tax code, most swaps are actually taxable, just like a sale for cash. That’s one reason the IRS has gone after the barter community, trying to tax goods and services that are exchanged. Section 1031 is an exception to the rule that swaps are fully taxable. 1031 allow you to change the form of your investment without cashing out or paying taxes.

Your tax basis stays the same, switching from what you gave up to what you acquired. That way your investment continues to grow, tax-deferred. If you qualify, there is no limit on how many times or how frequently you can do a 1031. Donald Trump and other real estate investors can roll over their gain from one investment to another.

Despite a profit on each swap, they avoid tax until they sell for cash years later, paying only one tax, ideally as a long-term capital gain. Whether 1031 applied to cryptocurrency before 2018 is debatable. Some exchanges of personal property, say a painting or a private plane have qualified. But exchanges of corporate stock or partnership interests never did. For many purposes, cryptocurrencies are not stock or securities, but there has often been debate on this point too.

Classically, an exchange involves a simple swap of one property for another between two people. But the majority of exchanges are not simultaneous, but are delayed or “Starker” exchanges - Starker was the name of the man whose tax case made these delayed exchanges famous. In a delayed exchange, you need a middleman who holds the cash after you “sell” your property and uses it to “buy” the replacement property.

The intermediary must meet a number of requirements. That is one reason delayed exchanges of cryptocurrency may not qualify. There are also two timing rules you must observe in a delayed exchange. Once the sale of your property occurs, the intermediary will receive the cash. Then, within 45 days of the sale of your property, you must designate replacement property in writing to the intermediary, specifying the property you want to acquire.

The second timing rule in a delayed exchange relates to closing. You must close on the new property within 180 days of the sale of the old. These two time periods run concurrently. You start counting when the sale of your property closes. If you designate replacement property exactly 45 days later, you’ll have 135 days left to close on the replacement property.

You may have cash left over after the intermediary acquires the replacement property. If so, the intermediary will pay it to you at the end of the 180 days. That cash is called “boot,” and is taxed as partial sales proceeds from the sale of your property. You must consider mortgage loans or other debt on the property you relinquish, and any debt on the replacement property. If you don’t receive cash back but your liability goes down, that too will be treated like cash.

Many holders of cryptocurrency probably can say they are holding their cryptocurrency for investment. The tougher hurdle is whether they swapped for property of like-kind. Section 1031 does not apply to trades of stocks or bonds, and the IRS could rely on this to disqualify any cross-species trade of cryptocurrency. However, different types of cryptocurrency are arguably like different types of gold coins.

If a swap of one type of gold coin for another qualifies, why not swaps of cryptocurrency? The IRS may argue that swapping Ripple for Bitcoin is really more like swapping silver for gold, or vice versa. Silver for gold would be taxable, so the IRS may say that a swap of cryptocurrency should be taxable too. Some of this may turns on the size of your gains, and how much of a chance are you willing to take.

But one of the biggest remaining issues is about the mechanics of tax reporting. You need to claim Section 1031 treatment on your tax return to be able to say that you met the rules. It might seem tempting not to report swaps of cryptocurrency at all. But for those trying to use 1031, failing to report would be a mistake, in my view. If you want to see what to report to the IRS, check out IRS Form 8824.



Robert W. Wood is a tax lawyer representing clients worldwide from offices at Wood LLP, in San Francisco (www.WoodLLP.com). He is the author of numerous tax books and frequently writes about taxes for Forbes.com, Tax Notes, and other publications. This discussion is not intended as legal advice.
 

The CC Forums

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Do any of the common accounting platforms work with crypto payments? Quick Books, online or others?

If you accept direct payments to Coinbase and then immediately convert to $$, then you can use Quickbooks to track income. But that’s for business payments.

I tried to download my .xls Excel file and import into TurboTax this year. No luck. Just error messages and garbage.

I feel ridiculous using a paper ledger in 2019 to track crypto buys and sells, but that’s what I’m doing. It has caused me to trade less and just buy for long-term more.
 

CryptoTC

Crypto Fat Cat
If you accept direct payments to Coinbase and then immediately convert to $$, then you can use Quickbooks to track income. But that’s for business payments.

I tried to download my .xls Excel file and import into TurboTax this year. No luck. Just error messages and garbage.

I feel ridiculous using a paper ledger in 2019 to track crypto buys and sells, but that’s what I’m doing. It has caused me to trade less and just buy for long-term more.

Busting out the old thread? I download my exchange reports and then manually fill out my 8949. Luckily only one page of sells in 2018 and some losses from 2017 to offset.
 

The CC Forums

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Busting out the old thread? I download my exchange reports and then manually fill out my 8949. Luckily only one page of sells in 2018 and some losses from 2017 to offset.

Just bringing it back to the top of the topic list because the IRS is set to ramp up enforcement and the US is finally openly discussing possible changes. For now though, read our articles and fill out those forms guys.

https://www.ccn.com/news/bitcoin-ta...14/?utm_source=vuukle&utm_medium=talk_of_town

Excerpt

The IRS will soon hunt down bitcoin users who don't pay taxes by criminally prosecuting them en masse. That's the prediction of IRS tax investigator Gary Alford, who says the agency is ready to clamp down on crypto tax evaders.

Alford says the IRS has usually been lax about pursuing new tax cases due to the rapidly-evolving tech industry. In other words, the law has often not kept up with technological advances. But Alford says this time, the IRS is "ahead of the curve."

The Internal Revenue Service will release new guidance for cryptocurrencies in late-June or July.

Alford says recreational bitcoin investors should not delude themselves into believing that the IRS is not aware that many of them don't pay taxes on their crypto capital gains. He warned them that Uncle Sam is onto them.

Walter Pagano, a tax partner at accounting firm EisnerAmper, echoed similar sentiments. Pagano previously worked at the IRS and the U.S. Treasury Department.

Pagano urged financial advisers to make sure that their clients pay taxes on their crypto capital gains because those profits are taxable in the same way that cap gains on stock investments are.
 
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